tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post3433186670758251877..comments2023-04-05T09:07:08.419-07:00Comments on Fides et Ratio: Summary of a Cosmological-Teleological Hybrid ArgumentAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07034462951274070391noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-90801491104792005532013-05-19T00:31:54.243-07:002013-05-19T00:31:54.243-07:00OK
What you are describing is not freedom to choo...OK<br /><br />What you are describing is not freedom to choose, but pure random chance. Which invalidates your argument.Walter Van den Ackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16101735542155226072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-48119332427284706222013-05-18T16:17:43.170-07:002013-05-18T16:17:43.170-07:00I'm going to let you have the last word on thi...I'm going to let you have the last word on this. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07034462951274070391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-50633575318894698622013-05-18T00:48:53.688-07:002013-05-18T00:48:53.688-07:00What you are describing is not freedom to choose, ...What you are describing is not freedom to choose, but pure random chance. Which invalidates your argument.<br />Walter Van den Ackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16101735542155226072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-10006956014022969152013-05-17T10:44:14.515-07:002013-05-17T10:44:14.515-07:00The question presupposes a causal constraint upon ...The question presupposes a causal constraint upon a person's freedom to choose, which is a contradiction in terms. Variation also has nothing to do with it. When a person freely chooses A or B, there is only the efficient cause, and no other explanation. I know it's weird, but so is consciousness.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07034462951274070391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-26510769306203287802013-05-17T09:20:09.564-07:002013-05-17T09:20:09.564-07:00If you really want to discuss this further, I'...If you really want to discuss this further, I'll give you my question.<br />What can possibly account for the ability of a person to choose either A or ~A (or A or B if you prefer) given that there is neither anything internal to tbe person nor anything external that can vary in any way?Walter Van den Ackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16101735542155226072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-15500162187248678282013-05-11T16:05:15.252-07:002013-05-11T16:05:15.252-07:00Then have it your way. You won't be posting h...Then have it your way. You won't be posting here again until this time next week.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07034462951274070391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-55873074083471319852013-05-11T07:51:42.330-07:002013-05-11T07:51:42.330-07:00I just kept replying because I thought it would be...I just kept replying because I thought it would be impolite not to, but I made it perfectly clear that I wanted to end this discussion unless you had something to add; so I am not going to repeat questions and keep this going for eternity. <br />If you want to suspend me, then just do so. I am not going to lose any sleep over it.Walter Van den Ackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16101735542155226072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-34845550608369984142013-05-11T02:07:58.284-07:002013-05-11T02:07:58.284-07:00I guess you didn't read my latest reply. You&...I guess you didn't read my latest reply. You've asked a lot of questions. It's unreasonable to expect me to guess which question you want answered the most. My patience here is growing very thin, and I've been very polite to you, Walter. Please just provide the question, or I'll be suspending you for a week.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07034462951274070391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-793184285222648502013-05-11T00:58:43.119-07:002013-05-11T00:58:43.119-07:00If you don't know which question I am referrin...If you don't know which question I am referring to, why don't you just answer them all? Walter Van den Ackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16101735542155226072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-59576009068000273462013-05-10T11:12:34.689-07:002013-05-10T11:12:34.689-07:00Lol you won't even say what the question is. ...Lol you won't even say what the question is. You've asked plenty of questions in this thread alone. Am I supposed to just find the needle in the haystack?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07034462951274070391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-59752061471384160962013-05-10T10:44:12.354-07:002013-05-10T10:44:12.354-07:00Because you cannot answer my question, no matter h...Because you cannot answer my question, no matter how often I ask it. So this discussion is pointless.Walter Van den Ackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16101735542155226072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-20202633490125398732013-05-10T09:13:28.973-07:002013-05-10T09:13:28.973-07:00Then why not indulge me and ask again? If you wan...Then why not indulge me and ask again? If you want to end the discussion, however, then that's your prerogative. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07034462951274070391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-23820556322552128972013-05-10T00:35:21.163-07:002013-05-10T00:35:21.163-07:00I made it perfectly clear what my question was, so...I made it perfectly clear what my question was, so if you have nothing more to add, I am out of this discussion. Walter Van den Ackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16101735542155226072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-78570374256772496032013-05-09T19:47:39.040-07:002013-05-09T19:47:39.040-07:00Then what's the question? Are you just asking...Then what's the question? Are you just asking for a definition of "person"?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07034462951274070391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-85841098048222443542013-05-09T14:30:29.512-07:002013-05-09T14:30:29.512-07:00I have read Robert Kane and I have laid out my que...I have read Robert Kane and I have laid out my questions to you, but neither you nor Robert Kane, nor William Lane Craig, nor Peter Van Inwagen... can answer my question.Walter Van den Ackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16101735542155226072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-26653717863993334432013-05-09T13:23:23.527-07:002013-05-09T13:23:23.527-07:00You might want to lay out some of the questions yo...You might want to lay out some of the questions you have. Or, you could just read Robert Kane's anthology, "Free Will."Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07034462951274070391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-68732063242505009142013-05-09T11:02:08.112-07:002013-05-09T11:02:08.112-07:00It was not an actual reply, I was just asking for ...It was not an actual reply, I was just asking for some additional information. So thank you for the link you gave me, but in all fairness, this was one of the 'lots of texts' I had already read on free will which did not answer my question. Walter Van den Ackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16101735542155226072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-45995283880404712432013-05-09T08:47:29.387-07:002013-05-09T08:47:29.387-07:00So much for not replying anymore, huh? ;) No, tha...So much for not replying anymore, huh? ;) No, that's okay. Craig offers a brief response, alluding to the lack of causal constraints, e.g. determinism. In answer to the writer's question, his most pertinent paragraph beings with, "Now as for your argument, I think two of its premisses are false."<br /><br />http://www.reasonablefaith.org/is-god-morally-praiseworthyAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07034462951274070391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-39765856389793380522013-05-09T01:43:53.145-07:002013-05-09T01:43:53.145-07:00I have read lots of texts on free will and I have ...I have read lots of texts on free will and I have never encountered any that actually answered my questions, but I keep an open mind on this, so there mùay be some that can.<br />So, just name one relevant source that answers my objections, preferably one that I can read online. Walter Van den Ackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16101735542155226072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-83664031504337213022013-05-08T17:47:34.487-07:002013-05-08T17:47:34.487-07:00Jon, I'm not familiar with Kreeft's latest...Jon, I'm not familiar with Kreeft's latest presentation of the cosmological argument (CA). However, he's presented plenty of sound versions of the argument in the past. I'm more interested in the best articulations of the CA. Thanks for the link.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07034462951274070391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-19373805569866906412013-05-08T17:45:01.987-07:002013-05-08T17:45:01.987-07:00Walter, you might want to read some of the relevan...Walter, you might want to read some of the relevant literature on free will. If you think theists and libertarians haven't answered your questions, you're just not looking hard enough.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07034462951274070391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-7265245697026674322013-05-08T13:47:37.957-07:002013-05-08T13:47:37.957-07:00I think the cosmological argument is often misrepr...I think the cosmological argument is often misrepresented in a less coherent fashion like Kreeft did last weeK : http://www.battleforthecoreoftheworld.com/2013/05/an-unfortunate-presentation-of-aquinas.htmlJonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13649212855990056161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-78549661632961674142013-05-07T22:54:55.349-07:002013-05-07T22:54:55.349-07:00I am leaving it at that. I have asked for an expla...I am leaving it at that. I have asked for an explanation becaue I am willing to concede that there might be something I am miissng here, but obviously you cannot answer my questions. No worries, I have asked thiks dozens of times to various theists and thd there is no anwer. You have not even begun to explain how God's decisions can vary, so, no offence, but I can't be bothered with psuedo-explanations. <br />If you want the last word on this, you are of course welcome, But I won't be replying anymore.Walter Van den Ackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16101735542155226072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-83627437593772689632013-05-07T12:50:52.034-07:002013-05-07T12:50:52.034-07:00It's not a mere assertion. We actually percei...It's not a mere assertion. We actually perceive ourselves as persons with free will. Chance isn't freedom. Don't confuse indeterminism with freedom. If you don't understand something, then just say so. I've already explained that God's decisions can vary, since N is not identical to those decisions. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07034462951274070391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-33052634422471126682013-05-05T00:31:02.661-07:002013-05-05T00:31:02.661-07:00I am trying to find out what exactly you think can...I am trying to find out what exactly you think can vary about a necessary person. It's not its talent, but what is it about a necssary person that can accout for variable decision making? So far you haven't made any sort of argument , you have merely asserted that a necessary person's decisions can vary. I could just object ' but if a neceesray perosn is supposed to be related to variable outcomes withiout any sort of explanation, then it's not decsribing N'. <br />So, no offence, but until you have a real argument there is nothing more to discuss on this matter.Walter Van den Ackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16101735542155226072noreply@blogger.com