tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post645465057246770611..comments2023-04-05T09:07:08.419-07:00Comments on Fides et Ratio: Our causation as an aspect of God's final causationAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07034462951274070391noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-37989110760048768322011-05-05T07:42:40.976-07:002011-05-05T07:42:40.976-07:00Another consideration from SCG which seems apt htt...Another consideration from SCG which seems apt http://scggloss.blogspot.com/2011/05/scg-book-i-chapter-4950.html Esp. at the end of cap. 49. Best, in Christ,Codgitator (Cadgertator)https://www.blogger.com/profile/00872093788960965392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-44041376248154600722011-03-26T17:14:20.395-07:002011-03-26T17:14:20.395-07:00Codgitator, you're absolutely right to point u...Codgitator, you're absolutely right to point us to SCG Book 1, ch. 34. As the Angelic Doctor says, "the power to heal, which is found in all health-giving things, is by nature prior to the health that is in the animal, as a cause is prior to an effect; but because we know this healing power through an effect, we likewise name it from its effect."<br /><br />There is, then, an analogy in being and essence between an effect and its cause, the cause having priority. Do we desire to be like God? Absolutely, but we're not trying to take the place of God.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07034462951274070391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-8745099602732029392011-03-25T06:05:21.158-07:002011-03-25T06:05:21.158-07:00Fine, if all you can do is attack strawmen of my o...Fine, if all you can do is attack strawmen of my objections, there is not point in discussing anyway.Walter Van den Ackernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-89825361772685863962011-03-25T02:14:19.948-07:002011-03-25T02:14:19.948-07:00I think SCG 1, 34 might help here. Keeping in mind...I think SCG 1, 34 might help here. Keeping in mind also that theosis––divinization––is integral to the Christian faith.Codgitator (Cadgertator)https://www.blogger.com/profile/00872093788960965392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-39363648728185025692011-03-24T19:14:11.262-07:002011-03-24T19:14:11.262-07:00Walter, I'm not going to be responding to you ...Walter, I'm not going to be responding to you anymore unless and until I see some evidence that you're willing to dialogue more seriously.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07034462951274070391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-3552450004076411392011-03-24T11:45:49.441-07:002011-03-24T11:45:49.441-07:00My objection does not hinge on any confusion. If y...My objection does not hinge on any confusion. If you want to make an artificial distinction between being completely like God and being God, that's your problem.<br />And if you don't understand my objection, that's your problem too.<br />Anyway, that's all I want to say on this.Walter Van den Ackernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-46181485652107368752011-03-24T07:24:40.765-07:002011-03-24T07:24:40.765-07:00By the way, Walter, do you notice the surreptitiou...By the way, Walter, do you notice the surreptitious nature of your latest objection? You started out by claiming that my reflection "disproves" the argument from desire. Your objection hinged on a confusion between being God and being like God. When I responded to this, you called my response "weak" and then proceeded to assert that the desire for perfect happiness is not an innate desire (not just that we have inadequate evidence for the premise), which comes completely out of left field.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07034462951274070391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-89964504498090298092011-03-24T07:12:53.561-07:002011-03-24T07:12:53.561-07:00I don't recall bringing up the argument from d...I don't recall bringing up the argument from desire in this post. By the way, your conclusion doesn't follow from the premise that we are already happy.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07034462951274070391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-4158001784718760832011-03-23T10:06:14.924-07:002011-03-23T10:06:14.924-07:00That's a pretty weak reply, Doug.
We are alrea...That's a pretty weak reply, Doug.<br />We are already happy, the desire for happiness is an innate desire, but the desire for is distinct from the desire to be perfectly happy.<br />Therefore, the desire for perfect happiness, which could only be met in heaven , is not an innate desire<br /><br />So, your argument from desire fails.Walter Van den Ackernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-61377043315586493602011-03-23T07:47:28.883-07:002011-03-23T07:47:28.883-07:00I believe we're already like God insofar as we...I believe we're already like God insofar as we reflect the divine image, as manifested in our ability to reason, cause things, and ultimately live forever. The desire to be like God is an innate desire, but that is distinct from the desire to be God Himself.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07034462951274070391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5743370102334877264.post-58425382654444808622011-03-23T01:20:39.499-07:002011-03-23T01:20:39.499-07:00I don't know whether you realize this, Doug, b...I don't know whether you realize this, Doug, but what you are saying here actually disproves your own argument from desire.<br />I once said that if it's true that innate desires can be fulfilled (like the desire to live forever could be fulfilled in the hereafter), it should also be true that our innate desire to be like God can be fulfilled in that we will becaome completely like God some day.<br />Your reply was that 'becoming God' was not an 'innate desire'<br /><br />Yet, now you say that we 'desire to cause things, which sublimely shows how much we want to be like our Creator.' This sure looks like a very profound innate desire to me.<br />So, when do you expect we will be completely like God? (a rough estimate wil do)Walter Van den Ackernoreply@blogger.com